But isn't "getting people to think about kinder ways" a sensible direction for training to take? Everyone has their "tricks" of the trade, and in the right hands, tricks work. But give that trick to a poorly timed eye, or a cruel or stupid eye, and lord help that animal.
I have old experience, riding those long ago horses. My TadPlaid was a 3yrold TB stallion, rarely handled. I never had to resort to anything other than turn-out, longing and then hacking. I do understand the rationale behind the tricks, but the tricks would be far less necessary if people weren't always revering/emulating bronc types of rodeo events. I think riding western correctly is really hard, and not that many people do it well. Roughness seems to be normal. I know I am generalizing, I'm just reporting my preliminary findings, is all;)
![]() |
Me & Chester, 2001 |
There's a brutal side in all forms of horse-training, and I ain't here to argue that. But by sheer volume, western wins, on the cruelty scale. We celebrate our "struggle" breakin' broncs. We mug the horses to the ground, with brute strength, how strong we are!
**My post about western being for the comfort of the rider, and not the horse, stands. The good saddle-seat riders have angles. Yes, WAY behind the "ideal" that we have. But the way these horses move allows for just about any contortion, doesn't it? The Saddle-Seat horses were bred to be smooth. Western, to work. Stop. Go real slow, don't jar me. Back up. Lower your head. Lower it more. More. MORE. I'm just not seeing as many comfortable horses wearing western tack. Since western is the dominant rider type these days, you notice things.**
To me, western means I will sit you like an arm-chair, and you will like it. A recent study of horses and jockeys discovered that the old style straight legs placed a far greater load on the horse. Why else would the ideal bronc rider start position be having your heels ahead of the horses' shoulders in the bronc chute? Huge marks are given for lying prone across the horses' back, legs straight out, when in full-buck. How comfy for the rider. The lazy-boy posture WINS! Not so much for the horse. Have you seen some of these guys doing their victory lap after the fact? Painful, and not for the rider.
I'd love to see what would happen if the bronc-riders had no flank strap, and sat up when the horse was released from the chute. Just for my own studies:)
Horses were not built to be ridden COMFORTABLY for them, like armchairs. That they react fairly violently, or shut down completely into their own pain-free little world, is no surprise to me. Quit telling me the flank strap is an annoyance. Why then, do their mouths gape? Why is a bloody good yank applied, JUST before they "explode" out of the chute, every, single, time? It's like winding up a spring toy, and then being surprised at the sproing. I just don't get it. I didn't get it years ago. I STILL don't get it.
I watched parts of the Calgary Stampede this year, for the first time in years, because I wanted to be proven wrong in any of the thoughts I have about rodeo. They had the novice saddle bronc rider event on. To a Horse, they all struggled in the chute. Each was explained as being a real tough character, real experienced bucking horses. One mare, 22 years old, needed a metal bar through the chute, below her throatlatch, so she wouldn't lie down. I watched a documentary series put on here called simply "Rodeo". In one clip, taken at the Edmonton rodeo, another "very experienced bucking horse" was flipping right out in the chute. Rearing, trying to fall over backwards, trying to jump out the front of the chute. Call me crazy, but those horses didn't seem to be enjoying their job.
Audiences love it. It makes me queasy. Not because of what you think, oh, poor horsie. I think, how odd. How strange, why would you do that? I don't deny the risk of death is the big seller in this sport. Man against the wild angry beast. But we MADE him wild, and angry and terrified, and sure his world has ended, as he head-first slams into the wall. Oh, well, just the rough-stock. I dunno. Because we are going to eat the animal later, does that make it okay to beat it up, and break it down, first? Why doesn't CBC-TV (covering the Calgary Stampede), show the impact of the calf hitting the end of the rope anymore, in "tie-down" roping? Why was it re-named? This event used to be called "calf-roping". Was the sight of clotheslining a young calf upsetting people? As long as we don't see it, it must be okay?
We are in angery times. I found that spelling in a comment made by a youngster about training her horse. "You have to get angery, or the horse won't listen." That made me queasy, too.
The prevailing attitude towards our food animals has always been drool first, ask questions later. But the laughing at an animal's injuries/distress, the cheering when the horse is flipping out, it all makes me wonder. What is the message we send to our youth? To each other? To ourselves?
There is no good reason to terrorize our domesticated creatures, I mean, why did we bother domesticating them, if we revel in making them "wild" again? I know I am in a tiny minority, but I've said from the beginning I'm not a fan of these rodeo events. I don't think all the rodeo events are cruel, of course, you guys already know my theory on barrel-racing. Or maybe you don't.
I watched a video simply named "Saddle Bronc", and I can not get the link to work. It was at a school in the USA. Bronc slammed head first into the concrete stands, and fell backward. They tried to get him to move. He'd flattened his skull, twitching and shaking as his brains slowly scrambled. Saddest thing I ever saw. Kids of about 8-9 were looking on with great interest, wearing cowboy hats. I know, that way they learn about death. But didn't WE kill that animal, just to see what he'd do when we wound him up?
Truly, what is the point behind putting underwear on a cow? Cartwheeling a calf? Mugging a pony, so he flips over on his head? SHARK didn't put out the three videos I posted below. Happy spectators did.
What are we telling ourselves? I wonder.
I know my readership will now shrink down to minus three. I know how popular and profitable the rodeo industry is, for a lot of basically good folks. But it's the premise, I think, that makes me pause, and wonder.
I don't "buy in" to anything. I was thinking this long before SHARK ever put out a video.
I stand by my disgust at the Wild Horse Race. We wonder where our brutality comes from. Then we put it on display, for all to see. To Cheer.
OH, and good news, Dad has changed his mind. I will continue to gently berate Dad to be careful of Stanley's hind claws, which I clipped, he is such a good cat.
9 comments:
so glad Stanley is able to stay with your dad!
As to western riding and rodeo.I will politely decline to comment but for this .I have explained my feelings on correct western riding in the past , and a couch seet is NOT it ,as to rodeo... well I shall just bow out on that discussion! There are soime conversations , that are not best had between even good friends
A pause to think, GL. I grew up loving rodeo, my girls barrel raced and were some of the first members of the NBHA and we happily took their money on occassion. Now when I watch most of them practice, it makes me ill.
Admittently I am a western rider and some of the pleasure trainers just suck, but not all. My mare is trained slow and steady and with an even hand. Hell, most times you won't even see a correction. And she loves her trainer and works her heart out for him. If he takes to long to get to her when entering the barn, she will about tear the door to her stall down. No harsh bits for head set, no tieing her down. she goes where her head is relaxed, a perfect vertical line. It CAN and DOES happen, but it takes the owner to find the right trainer and to refuse to accept anything less.
If we do not protect the animals, who will?
How odd, all this time, I had no idea this is what you thought of Rodeo. What an eye-opener.
I have a zero tolerance policy for supporters of SHARK, PETA or any other organization/individual that deems one equine sport more 'suitable' than another. Whatever the case may be-Rodeo, Steeplechasing, Horse Racing...
And that's really all I have to say about the matter.
Whoa. I should have said "Monty Roberts and the Parellis have conned the public into THINKING their ways are kinder." In the hands of a person with feel and horse sense their program can work just fine, but in the wrong hands their approach and tools can be just as abusive as any other program, and in some ways worse.
The quote of mine you used might be misconstrued the way you used it, so I want to make it very clear that I think Buck Brennaman and the Dorrances are truly kind and gentle trainers, and some of the best I've seen. They understand horses. They discipline properly in ways that a horse can understand, without overblown drama. The horses understand them. They teach love and respect for the HORSE instead of pretending that horses are overgrown dogs.
Proper training in any discipline is best done gently and kindly...and has been for many years. However, in ANY discipline you will also find a few horses that need to learn that killing the human is a bad idea. Especially since the only alternative is to kill the horse. Sometimes it takes one big fight to solve that problem.
There are good horsemen and bad in any discipline, and English is no different. Remember the horse killing fences at the Olympics one year?! Rolkur? Jumping young horses?
Western horses are not ALL bred to go slow and drop their faces, any more than English horses are all bred to roar blindly along a course in a slow twist snaffle. (As an aside, why in the heck are hunter classes peanut rolling now?!)
Gotta disagree on Western saddles ALL being bad for the horse and sitting the rider in a chair seat. There are a whole lot of saddles out there that are made for specific jobs. That's like judging ALL English saddles by park saddle standards. English saddles, sat incorrectly, can do serious damage.
Bottom line... it's easy to say that your own discipline is the only one to get it right, but it's not fair or accurate to generalize to that degree.
Whatever anyone thinks of GL's opinion, she is entitled to it just as much as any of you are.
I don't care for many parts of rodeo or western riding either but that sure as hell doesn't make me a supporter of PETA or SHARK. Just because someone expresses an opinion that you don't care for does not make them a supporter of a radical group of fanatics
I also don't care for parts of hunter/jumper, dressage, saddleseat, racing, etc..., and I also know that GL has expressed those same feelings on a number of occasions.
Frankly, I don't think GL cares what discipline it is, only that the horses are happy and I am surprised to see her being accused of anything different.
This is a western rider/trainer
Stacey westfall
And when you look at this , who sits the alternate horse better?
Western vs Dressage
I respect the idea that, as CCC said, you have your opinion GL. However, as you directed things to me, then posted that your opinions of western riding still stands- but added all the crap about todays western pleasure horse standards?
Whatever. Believe what you want, you will anyways. And without having ridden or tried it- hooray you, huh?
There is good and bad in every discipline. Usually both can be found at any event.
Ah, BEC, I knew you'd take it personally, as would FV, and that's why it took a while to type. I just have a problem with the overtness of the violence towards the animal, especially in the WHR. I can't seem to get past that, and I think it trickles down a bit. sigh. It's just more in your face, ya know? I am NOT talking about the events that make SENSE, or are fun enough for both horse and rider and animal. My theory about barrels is that men designed it to give women something to do, that's all. I see a lot of polo in barrels.
Seriously, steer-busting? The jerk-downs? I dunno.
I support neither PeTA, or SHARK. I do know when I see something cruel. To me, the WHR is legalized mugging. Steer-busting? Tenderizing the meat before you butcher it. But hey, why not just carve them up, for all to see in the arena?
Animals torture their food before they kill it. I guess we are animals after all?
Why does no-one feel for that cart-wheeling calf? That wasn't even posted on SHARK's site.
Why do people clap and cheer that sight?
There are parts of rodeo that need traditionalized back to reality.
Why do we LOVE the bull-wrecks, where guys are getting the ever-loving shit kicked out of them? Did that happen a lot, on a ranch? If so, was that the form of birth-control? Honey, go ride the bull, I don't want to get pregnant anymore..
I think you guys are awesome. You didn't get the point. By numbers, there are more western riders. So, assuming there is a 10 or 20% bad/crappy cruelSOB rate amongst all of the disciplines, western has the most. By NUMBERS.
Jeesh, Buy a calculator. Don't be so darned sensitive. Typical horse-people.
And no, I never did ride western. Tried it, didn't much like it. I tied a goat once, and felt like an idiot. But I feel like an idiot a lot, so there.
I did like to ride the polo-ponies I groomed for, I rode a few rodeo rejects found at auction. Sad sore backs they had.
It's a danged hypothesis about epidemiological sociology, and you guys post Stacey Westfall. Hell, I KNOW there are excellent wonderful western riders, I post on their danged blogs.
I see a lot of chair seats, it pisses me off.
Notice you didn't disagree about the bronc rider position...
That's overt. Ya know?
I'll stop.
Sorry for any offence, none intended.
Well spoken GL, I think I did understand where you were coming from and frankly I don't get the attitudes. You have brought out what you don't like about other disciplines, including your own, many times as well. Guess it was okay, that is until now!
Today's western pleasure is a joke, and what is even more a joke is the HUS classes. In no way shape or form is how those horses are ridden any form of hunter riding. It is merely western pleasure with english tack and apparel.
As a true hunter rider, it makes me puke to watch what they consider hunter under saddle. Lets watch them enter a hunter ring with eight 3'6" fences and see how well they fare approaching those fences in that type of frame. Lets then guess what is going to happen, I know I can!
Why is it that english riders never try to emulate western riding, but western riders are all up in it? HMMMMMM!!!
Oh, and just so we are all straight, I did ride western, I showed western, I rode barrels and I was part of rodeo.
Whew GL, I guess I needed to get that one out in the open as well.
Well, there ya go.
Post a Comment