Seriously:)
Google Searches for western riding.
Interesting, fazinating really. Google "western riding training" and the first "up" are primarily from (are you ready?) England. You know?
Britain, Great?
That strikes me hilariously surreal. It's just, so, bleeeedin' ironic. I've been hiding under my equine-free rock for some time now. Imagine my surprise, as a staunch cheerily-o fan of the British/English whutever. I'm a Scot. It's genetic.
I truly expected to see riders/stables/ horses from the western side of the planet, ya know??
What the heck happened while I was carefully covering up my horse light all these years? I'm not annoyed about it, don't get me wrong. It just seems, well, wrong.
Then I tried to get Google to be a little more specific, which led to "team penning/barrels/cutting/roping/reining/WP/specialist/specialist/specialist/etc.".
I just could not find a picture of a NorthAmerican western rider riding, from the side. Even one standing still. Weird. No, I didn't look that hard. What, you think I have 48 hours in a day?
So, that's a British-English-Rider riding Western, in the multi-pic HorseStickToon below. I'm taking her position as an average to what I've seen. And, she's British. First up on the old google search. Plus, the english do it RighT:)
(mostly.)
I haven't watched much western. Okay, next to none. Only english. Got it?
Yeah, me either. This made much more sense in the car-wash.
Remember, I still believe that the two are essentially the same. They aren't, at first glances, and with first impressions. I'm looking with a purely clinical eye here, no preferences, no bias. I rode a tiny bit of western in my fooolish youth.
Tangent, still rankling, part of what got this post fizzing.
I've been totally mystified by the lack of a tent in a western saddle pad. Why don't the western folk tent? It boils down to use, I think, and where you are in the tack.
Where are you, exactly?
Humungous generalizations, which I hope you are learning to expect by now.
"english" defined. Gallop, jump, piaffe. Trot in aimless circles, if you ride dressage. (I'm KIDDING!!)
"western" defined. Lope along the fence line, stop, whirl, run down that cow. Shuffle along with your head in the dirt. Again, KIDDING.
Sort of:)
After reading CNJ's latest post on saddle fit, and really looking at the position and placement of the saddle upon the horse, an epiphany blew up in my head.
Of course, western sits further back!! I knew ThaT anyway, watching some good and not so good riders. But when I went to proof my hypothesis, this happened. What do you see?
western, hunter, dressage, in that order.
What do YOU see? (I tell you what I see further down, don't peek.)
Where do You want to be in the tack? Where does the Horse want you? What are you and the horse DOing?
These questions are crucial. Simple, but crucial. I think.
I still think western pads "would/could/should" be tented. I know they are way thicker and cushier, generally. I don't get why they are not tented up into the gullet, at the start of every ride...
I do obsess about the strangest things...
Pinched withers hurt!
PDF alert! But a great article on the horse's back... Functional Anatomy of the Horse's back
The whole search page is interesting, really.. Not the least of which, my blog actually comes up, what a freakin' miracle!
I see way more tack above the western horse's back. Duh.
I see a western/dressage leg more prone to the chair seat, which is the comfy human position, after all. Double duh. See the HorseStick Figures, couple of posts back.
I see more than that, too, but I'm curious, what do you see?
Wasn't quite worthy of the wait, huh? Oh, WeLL, I thought it was cool. So there.
omyGOsh, I almost forgot to mention this, jeeeesh, I need some ginseng. None of the positions shown are incorrect. When we speak of absolutes in riding, it's the absolutes of balance between you and the horse that apply. Not "look".
And in the end, the horse is the one with the absolutes that matter. He's the one carrying You, after all.
Pings and NonSense
OH, I forgot to tell you this, too. I've dropped from 1.5 millionth on the quantcast ping-counter, to 15 millionth! 10 to the negative 10th!!
Exponentially, I RULE.
12 comments:
My riding may or may not be "super corrrect" for the dicsipline. But the bottom line for me is my center of balance in effect workinglined up with the horses center of balance.Shoulders hips heels in a line. I do that western ,english or bareback . Great post as always GL
Most of us do "tent" our western pads. Sometimes it's just not as obvious as it might be with an english saddle. But I do hate seeing people riding that haven't tented at least a little bit.
As far as tenting the pad , I think we do , maye to ea lesser extent, but I usually do. Some people who ride with a cutout in the pad and double pad may not but I would think the cout out works the same way
BEC, I don't doubt it, I just don't SEE it, wherever I look. Horse Illustrated, for example. I couldn't believe it. In an article on saddle fit.
Enough said there, though, mebbe.
<")
I have no clue in regards to the tenting in the western saddle, I tend to think mine is kind apre-tented due to the fact it is folded so it IS tented before the saddle goes on. It settles after. But due to the nature of western saddles being heavy, I ride in a synthetic as it was all I could lift that high.
I just noticed, no-one's saying what they SEE.
Where's Andalusians of Grandeur??
SHE'd tell me what she saw.
I was trying to prove that western sits further back.
My drawings blew that hypothesis right outta the water.
Okay, so I went back, reread your post and also skimmed the article you linked too...I have saved that in my favorites for later, more in-depth perusal.
From skim reading it though, I am again reminded just how much a good ranch horse has in common with the beginning of making an ideal dressage horse.
Teaching a "ranch horse" how to be a joy to ride for miles on end, involves very little training...mostly miles. We do very little messing with the horse's head. Ideally, the horse is expected to figure out how to stretch his neck forward, release his shoulders, lift his back and push with his hindquarters.
If you asked most cowboys(or cowgirls) how they get their good horses to do that, they may look a bit confused. Not a lot of them think about the actual effort it takes for that to happen. The horse is allowed and expected to figure it out on their own.
A horse that can never seem to figure out how to stretch forward and stride out is considered a failure.
Western saddles come in a variety. Where you sit on the horse's back and how you sit in them depends on the make of the saddle and what "event" that saddle is designed for. Pleasure saddles and cutting saddles encourage that "couch seat", barrel saddles have you sitting more upright and balanced over your leg. Roping saddles although bigger and heavier do about the same. I haven't ridden a real reining saddle yet, but I suspect they also encourage a couch seat.
In a western saddle it is difficult and uncomfortable to maintain a different position than the saddle is made to put you in. Many people who struggle with maintaining a comfortable and correct position simply don't realize that they may need a different saddle.
Makes great sense, BEC. Thank you.
I love this "Teaching a "ranch horse" how to be a joy to ride for miles on end, involves very little training...mostly miles. We do very little messing with the horse's head."
That's true on my side too!
At least with me.
I hacked every horse I ever re-schooled, first and foremost. Loose reins, get on with it.
Much more so after riding big old bay horse, of course. He really punctuated that point.
GL- some western riders try to tent their pads while others just throw everything on. The way the saddles are made though, in many cases, they pretty much prevent any efforts of tenting.
Where the English saddles allow you to see from one end to the other, many of the westerns don't.
About midway back, they flatten out and pretty much sit flat on the horses backs. There is a very small channel down the center between the skirts. The big difference is where the western saddles have the larger skirts and more area to dispense the riders weight.
The front of the saddle is to stay up off the spine and allow the airflow in, but as others said sometimes the pad settles with work. Built up pads and others offering the cut back area or the thinner channels along the spine offer some degree of cooling, but the saddle can for the most part block some of this airflow.
As BEC said, the intended use for the saddle has an effect on where you sit in it. Ropers and barrel saddles- you may be standing up in them more than you sit down. The ropers stand up to throw because it's hard to do sitting down. They dally, sit down and turn the cow, waiting for the heeler to throw. Barrel saddles, you are up and forward, helping and encouraging the horse to run faster. Easing down into the saddle before the barrel is using your seat to help the horse rate off of you, going into the turns.
Cutters can be more flat. Allowing the rider to move forward into the cutters crouch. Reiners a little more padded, putting you back towards the middle or back of the seat and eq saddles may have more padding still, sorta locking you into a position or spot in the seat.
I am tring to find pictures of all of this. I know some of us are more 'visual' learners and the light doesn't go on until we see things for ourselves.
GL- I will email you with a website I just found. It shows pictures of the undersides on a few different saddles and one of them is a lot like mine.
Man it sure has gotten quiet around here...
Our Favorite redhead has been bery busy, I think.
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