Compostulating With The Times

Monday, February 2, 2009

TwoDaysof Sunshine&AnotherBlackHorse. DQ question?




Consecutively, even! Wow. Actually felt not unpleasant being outside! 32 degrees Fahrly decent. Joanie always has a nice day. Dad was there for her until her last breath. Broke my tiny heart, how sweetly he took care of her, through her battle. Always felt a strange twist in my heart, because of Mom, of course. Children of divorce. Well, children of any broken family, divorced or no. ANYway.

No more melancholia today, not with the sunset painting a promise of more mildness tomorrow.

My Blaze puppy, looking woebegone in her getting her bath picture yesterday, is waiting on her cuddle time. Flip has settled down again, and needs a reminder escort for her outside duties. Or she cleans up. Eeeeewww. I've gotten some e-mails from other Kelpie owners about the very same issue, with various ideas and diagnosis offered. I'm of the opinion she has a screw loose:)

My horse musings are pretty quiet. Oh, wait, here's Andalusians of Grandeur for THE inspirational quote of the day.
AofG said:
"I have decided that when I get my weight and health issues sorted out and am finally ready to get back in the saddle, I will refrain from grabbing my horses' faces no matter what. So, the black twh filly will be ridden on a loose rein in wide open spaces till we both learn to balance. As for the Arab, I have to make it up to her for all those years of clinging with the hands, thumping with the legs, and ruthlessly flopping and wobbling with my seat causing further deterioration of the mouth. Yes, I can use the roundpen to get my confidence and stability back, but I yearn to go into a big open field and just let my horse move. I can start to focus on direction more once the horse's rhythm comes more naturally to me. I rode for years in an arena, and neither I nor my horse benefitted from it. If I have intent to go somewhere, that's where the wise Arab goes without fail."

Now, that's inspirational, kids.

It's one of the hardest, yet most exhilarating things to do on a horse. Let him be. Just, let him be a horse. Let him know you're honoured to be along.

Another Black Horse I rode, for a Farmer I'd had some prior history with, came to me as a spoiled, mouthy, over-flexed, chin-pinned to chest shit. He was four, I think when I started with him. Gawd, he was gorgeous. 16.2, Trakehner/TB cross. A Poster Child for Pretty. He was built so beautifully, the perfect wide forehead, perfect star, dish-faced, huge intelligent, bratty eyes. Oh, the initial ground work arguments we had! He bit me just about everywhere, for two days. I hurt my hand giving him a rap on his shoulder, and he finally quit. Timing was good, my aim was bad. OverHandfeeding from babyhood, bah! Oh, he's so cute! grrr.

Oh, they are the hardest to fix. The absolute worst. Give me a horse with his head stuck in the air, before a horse that's learned he can avoid everything with a tuck of his chin. It's shameful, what the wrong kind of early training can do to even the well-conformed, well-balanced horse. They aren't all built equally. But his early training sure didn't help him much. He could go anywhere, looking any direction at all. Bent like a goddamn pretzel. Of course, I'm up there saying "Helllo? Let's try straight? Just for a minute?" I just kept dropping his head, and moving him forward. Give him any type of rein pressure, and he disappeared, in front of you. Not good.

The only place I had to ride him was an open, very rolling, kinda junk infested field. We'd trailer once a month up to an arena, but otherwise I was schooling in all weathers and all footing. Within reason. I wasn't stupid by then. The horse hurt himself several times there. I tried, I did. I also had a full-time job by now, this is after I left teaching, after GoLightly. I wouldn't have been able to help this horse as well, without Lightly.

Anyway, I had a lesson with Mac Cone (amazing jumper rider, amazing guy) on this black horse, after I'd been working on him for about a month.
Mac Cone simply said "Just let him be a horse". The next weekend, we were Reserve Champions in the Green Hunters. (The horse had already shown 1 year of JUMPER when I started with him. Yeah, too young.)

Mac should have gotten the ride on this horse. He was that good a horse. But, the Farmer guy wanted the horse to do well without professional help. He turned down big offers for the horse, until I had to leave, as the Farmer wanted more than riding from me. I was also a little exhausted from trying to keep the fields safe enough to ride in. Yeah, I know, how do I find these people?? The horse ended up only suitable for dressage, and sold while still lame. He was a born jumper, wasted by too much, too soon.

The idea of curving a horse's body needs to be understood through his whole body, not just his NECK. Lengthwise and height-wise, the neck needs to follow the shape of the body. There is a sweet spot, just behind the poll, (approx. 4 inches) depends on the horse, that is where the crest of the neck should "flex". Can't remember the name of the muscle groups, darn it! A Dressage Queen would know. God love 'em. Christilot's clinic many years ago showed me that cool little "secret". Only it isn't a secret. The highest part of the crest of the neck, kinda "flips", as the correct bend is achieved.

Och, I'll look up the muscle names, but not now. Gotta get some sleep, and snuggle my puppy.
Anyway, the neck should "flip" ONLY there, any more and you're asking for a shoulder pooping out on you. I meant popping, but the other is funnier.
Overbending is an ugly thing for the horse. Rider thinks he's a superstar, the horse thinks, WTF, now where do I go? Oh, I can go ANYwhere! The channel, the touch, the timing. It's all gotta be there, be square.

Here's a cool old picture of a basket cradle collar. Just ahead of the collar, is the sweet spot, on the crest of the neck. (Is THAT what it's called??? HELP!)

Thanks, Andalusians. I love re-reading comments, and getting inspired, all over again! Didja try any of Christilot's exercises yet? Don't they burn? In a good way:) No Pain, No Gain. I still practice them, just in case a horse comes running up my driveway. You never know:)

To Natural, Balanced Happy Horses, enjoying their riders.
That's all that counts!

30 comments:

Sherry Sikstrom said...

I don't ride dressage or WP for that matter but my idea of how a horse should carry himself goes right back to "watch him in the pasture at liberty" the way he travels and carries himself there is where he is likely at his best and most comfortable. and try to achieve that, under saddle. ( not to say that collection should be ignored but it should not destroy the horses "freedom of movement ) Don't know if that makes sense ,it sounded more clear in my head.

nccatnip said...

Well on your way to being WAY over my head again. But I am trying to follow. FV- the description made sense and I will try to exam Redi's neck carriage more closely next time I ride. We had a horrible issue with throwing her head when I first got her but I did not accept her former owner/breeder/trainers excuse that it was the 1/16th TWH in her. I still suspect the cheap curb bit that came with the nylon bridle. A nice sweet iron argentine snaffle did the trick. Oh, and quiet hands helped. Now she only is a bobble head when she is impatient.

GoLightly said...

FV, girl, that's the idea. And all horses do the "flipflex", you just aren't looking for it. Or, I should say, you've seen it, and not named it.
Sorry, I had a blistering migraine last night, on a few aspirins as I typed.
Home today, still dizzy and nauseous. Gr8! AND, red sky at night sailor's delight?
Not!!!
More snow today..

I have a better explanation, I hope, in my head now, but Blaze needs a walk first.

Sherry Sikstrom said...

Sorry about the headache ,Migraines will quite simply kick a girls ass! I was fighting one myself yesterday having had a eye exam with some odd? results. I do get what you are saying about the "flipflex" just can't always give it a name the concept of "relaxed flexion is quite foriegn to many .

GoLightly said...

Oh, dear, Fern!!
Hope you are ok. I had some weird what I call "eye-lights" episodes over the weekend, usually brought on by (what else) stress and being tired. They always promise a migraine coming.

And, that's not a crib-collar, dammit. I knew I was wrong last night, but didn't much care.
My brain isn't telling me what it's really called.
Help!
I'll edit, once I have the name for the darn thing. These are used to stop a horse from destroying his blankets, bandages, worrying on wounds etc.
WTF??
Helllo? BRAIN??

bhm said...

GL,
Hi hon. You trained with Mac Cone. Amazing!! Lucky girl...I'm so jealous.

I'm having a Migraine right now so I hope everything is well with you and also with you too, FV.

bhm said...

FV,
If I remember correctly you ride western, right? In English riding the purpose of changing how a horse carries itself is to counter balance the rider effect on the horse body. Essential a rider makes a horse front heavy so the horse is asked to carry more weight on the hind legs to counteract the additional new weight on the fore.

In Western riding, how is a horse asked to carry itself? Also, in Western riding how is the horse asked to counteract the effect of the riders weight on it's body?

bhm said...

Andalusians of Grandeur,
I strongly recommend that you, and everyone else for that matter, read "The Twisted Truths of Modern Dressage" by Philippe Karl. It goes into great detail on the topic of how hand position and hand contact effects the horses body. There's a lot of advice on how to establish correct contact that you won't get from most riding instructors.

GoLightly said...

BHM!!
Hey,it was only once (sigh).
A very memorable once. His tennessee drawl? oy..

BHM, take the saddle off for a minute, and then sit on the horse.
Where you sit is supposed to be exactly the same. English kinda assumes you are going to be riding for about an hour, two tops. Western assumes you'll want to get comfy, but the principles of where the rider sits are the same. The Western rider wants to use as little of his own efforts as possible. It's a long way in a saddle:)
Even longer bareback.
So the Western Rider will sit back further on his pockets, but he should still have the self-same leg position as an English Dressage Rider. And the good ones do. I haven't seen too many of them, Fern's pictures of her riding are a good example, and mugs blog has shown some good ones. Stacey Westfall, eg.
Shoulder, hip, heel, in a straight line.
Now stand back, for the great divide debate!!
:):)
Sheesh, BHM, were have you been?
I gave up arguing about this on mugs blog WEEKS ago, seems like.
:):):)
The similarities between good english and good western are far more numerous than either side (the radicals, you know) want to admit.
All horses should ultimately carry themselves from behind to the front. Without the control of the back end, the hands mean nada.
Controlling the back end starts with going forward.
Which is my mantra.
Go,Forward. Go,Lightly.

And what is the name of that contraption on the pictured horse's neck, please?? Cradle something, och,it almost was THERE!
I gave away my Pony Club Manual.
My senility is showing.

p.s. BHM, can I borrow that book?
I've heard he rants against roll-kur, love to study up more on that.

(hugz, to all)

Sherry Sikstrom said...

bhm , bear with me here as I am not great at the technical explanations butt here goes. I don't really see a diffierence in the english /western style if we are simply discussing balance and gate. Your horse need sto be centered and balanceed and to do so is best working off the hndquarters a heavy on the forehand horse will have poor unbalanced gaits and be at higher risk for injury. We ask the horse to move off in a drive ahead motion centering our centre of balance over thiers and drive from behind. this is key in working cattle and riening and in simple pleasure riding nd trail riding. I have trouble with the look of WP horses as I can't see how you can do the peanut roller thing without pusshing your horse on to his forehand. Keep in mind when I start a horse my goal is a balanced free moving mount that can move to any reasonable (for that horse ) disipline. Clear as mud huh?

bhm said...

BHM, can I borrow that book?
I've heard he rants against roll-kur, love to study up more on that.
------
Most certainly you can. I also recommend:
Tug of War: Classical Versus "Modern" Dressage: Why Classical Training Works and How Incorrect Riding Negatively Affects Horses' Health by Gerd Heuschmann

And

"The Truth About Horses" by Andrew McLean

The McLean book is really worth the cost as it has all the updated studies on horse psychology. It's useful in weeding through all the out dated ideology and misinformation posted.

I'm a classically oriented horseperson rather than a dressage oriented. But, I do recommend that riders read the two classical dressage books that I listed because it discusses in detail modern dressage practices that will emotionally and physically destroy your horse.

Rollkur is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to abusive dressage practices. Modern dressage is an industry/sport rather than an art form. They are not motivated by ideology which search for the best way to train and to ride simply because it's the best way. It to much of an artsy-fartsy concept for them. They are more concerned with cranking out as many horses as fast as they can can and get as many ribbons as possible. Destroying the horse in the process is inconsequential.

I have more to write to you but I will have to post later. I just wanted to say that I've read all your posts and believe that you are a wonderful writer. You have a very creative and skilled way of using words..keep it up.

Funny thing...when I was looking for books for you I found my copy of "The Rise of Bronze Age Society". Ha...I've been trying to find that book for months. My library is such a mess.

GoLightly said...

BHM, sheesh, howz your head? Poor t'ing. I'm sorry, been there, getting over that today.

I think self-carriage is the key, to either of 'em.
Touch and timing and all that, and I forgot what I was going to..
dammit!

My 'ead...
To Pretty, Shiny Black Horses.

bhm said...

fv,
Excellent explanation. Weight onto the haunches to facilitated better movement, balance, and to prevent injury. I thought that the two concept would be fundamentally the same.

I always get confused when I look at some western riders because I often see the chair seat. GL and FV, thank for clearing that up for me. The balance point should be the same and the body alignment the same. I do understand what you are saying about placing more weight on the seat bones. Essentially that's how you ride a spin or a cut to the side without loosing your balance. So this makes perfect sense as that is the type of movement that is used to cut cattle.

bhm said...

GL said..
BHM, sheesh, howz your head? Poor t'ing. I'm sorry, been there, getting over that today.
----
I had to go take some medication and have a break but now I'm better.

GL said...Hey,it was only once (sigh).
A very memorable once. His tennessee drawl? oy..
---------
Now that sounds hot or is it just me?

Sorry I haven't been posting but I've been very tired lately. I made the mistake of answering a question on one of my archaeology groups. Two thousand words, researched with citations. I've finally finished my research to answer the follow up questions but I still need to write it up.

I promise I wasn't hiding out in cave with my Jihadi friends or doing anything interesting like crossing the Antarctic.

bhm said...

fv said...
how a horse should carry himself goes right back to "watch him in the pasture at liberty" the way he travels and carries himself there is where he is likely at his best and most comfortable. and try to achieve that, under saddle.
----------
Agreed. If you get the chance to expand upon your approach to transferring natural movement to under saddle training I'd be interested in hearing.

GoLightly said...

bhm, 'zactly.
There's some bad western pictures out there.
(shivers)
Bad english, too.

The basic principles of the past hold just as true today.

A horse is a horse, of course, of course!

Sorry, I'm old enough to remember Mr. Ed, the talking TV horse. Palomino critter. Except he was in black & white:)
Jeesh. Ancient, I am.

Still no answer to the cradleCollar thingymajiggy? Darn.

My Flip is addicted to dog shit. She just got a fix, today, by manipulating me out of position. Darn dog...
I have the only dog I know who is "aggressively obsequious". Hope that's spelled right. wow. Credit to Patricia McDonnell, from the book "The Other End of the Leash".
She can suck up with the best, this Flippy dog:) She gets her way, one way or t'other.
Eeeeeeeeeewwwwww.

Oh, well:)
I still love her. She's looking all contrite. Ya sure.
Sorry for sharing that bit of my life.

Oh, and bhm, thanks.
I've had such fun, blathering away!
We're for sure,on the same page, when it comes to the harses:)

Quiet hands are everything.
Touch & Timing.
Wish I was younger and spryer.
Ok, just richer.

amen:)

GoLightly said...

LOL, BHM, great minds do indeed
think alike:):)
and even type at the same time!

Rest and be well, friend.

bhm said...

Just one more...the wooden neck cradle prevent the horse from chewing it's bandages.

GoLightly said...

A "cradle!"
(smacks head) Jeez I was right, and didn't know it.
That never happens:)

I knew what it was for, just not wtf it was called........
I mean, I used to know..

THANK YOU!!!

Sherry Sikstrom said...

bhm, jeez you are either going to a) break my brain
b) expose me as a complete chalatan ,or c) make me a better trainer by makeing me think about what I do and why.
Give me some time I have been going through it in my head while doing chores I will try to post on my blog tonight (cause I can use Pics)

Sherry Sikstrom said...

Ok Gang, I gave it a try.If you want to see if it makes any sense at all
http://fernvalley01.blogspot.com/

nccatnip said...

GL- I have looked and looked and cannot find your email address anywhere in my contact list- I maybe blind.
Anyway, I wanted to send you this link to a photoshoot my neighbor did, as soon as I pick one I will post it but I did want you to see them-
And all those ladies think of using my Clairol in Pecan and form a GL Ladies Gang- there it is, freshly done roots and all.

http://lightimages.smugmug.com
/gallery/7260708_Mujmd#P-1-12

you will need to take out the space as I don't do that HTML thingey- just learned cut and paste last week.

GoLightly said...

NCC:):)
You look absolutely fabulously gorgeous! Perfect colour, wow. Very natural, jeez. Gives me hope for when the gray finally overwhelms the auburn..
Is that Griff? He looks jealous(Kidding). He's very handsome! He needs some more red too..

SEE?
All women are actually red-heads!

This means I have a minion now too?
Do I get to send out the GL KoolAid now?

my e-mail is in my profile, goopy..
I got brave, and incredibly, STILL no hate mail.

bhm said...

This means I have a minion now too?
Do I get to send out the GL KoolAid now?

my e-mail is in my profile, goopy..
I got brave, and incredibly, STILL no hate mail.
------------
Us lowly, servile dependents are waiting for your command oh great one.

Oh great one, your KoolAid is ready. Complete with the 400 hits of acid that you requested be added to the mixture.

I've just informed my Jihadist friend that you have not been wearing your burkah. You should be receiving hate mail any day now, oh great one.

bhm said...

This means I have a minion now too?
Do I get to send out the GL KoolAid now?

my e-mail is in my profile, goopy..
I got brave, and incredibly, STILL no hate mail.
------------
Us lowly, servile dependents are waiting for your command oh great one.

Oh great one, your KoolAid is ready. Complete with the 400 hits of acid that you requested be added to the mixture.

I've just informed my Jihadist friend that you have not been wearing your burkah. You should be receiving hate mail any day now, oh great one.

nccatnip said...

Profile??? Why would I think of looking there? Duh...........
Pardon my moment- I am overwhelmed with excitement as I am having a snow day- we got a whopping 2 inches last night and I was all dressed and ready to go to work when they called to say the office was closed..giggle, giggle........

The pupper in my pics is actually Miss Kiss, my little blue merle girl. Mr Griff is out on tour with his breeder- he is my black tri.

BHM- Can I have my Kookaid with Tequila instead?

GoLightly said...

NCC, enjoy:):):)

The official Kookaid for this blog should be...

Vodka Screwdrivers.
That's all I can drink. Once, twice a year..

2 inches, wow... We got a foot last week, I still had to go to work. Guess when you're in the warmer climes, 2 inches is a lot. Lucky!!

fixing my burkah, now:)

bhm said...

nccatnip,
Your photos are beautiful. Congrats....she said passing the screwdrivers.

Andalusians of Grandeur said...

I'm still here. I've always wanted to ride a Trakehner. I have been around a couple, and they were hot and sensitive and very engaging. I like the idea of the dishy head, huge eyes and powerhouse back end. The exercises are fantastic. Nothing like the burn! My Arab is great at going places shoulder first. lol! I don't think I have ever felt a horse who was bent correctly through his ribcage and stepping under with the inside hind. At least I assume the inside hind should step under more with proper bend. Still loving the blog! Boy!! You really got down DIJ's throat as well you should have.

Andalusians of Grandeur said...

Thanks, bhm. I will get the books and run them through my scanner. Then I can read them as text. I am a bookworm! On red hair: I'm buying some pure henna powder and going from warm brown to rich red soon. Messy stuff but great for the hair. Pass me some of the acid; it's the only time I get to see anything. lol!