I float you flower!
I frost you shivers.
I trotted Tad!
Oh, sorry, off kilter tangent. There I am again, practicing rolled-curing. Poor Tad. At this point, I'd used the looose-side rein "breaking" method. I'd found he was very well-cornered, as HP has described. He had pretty equal balance in himself, from the start.
I personally find it kind of creepy now, the hype and the absolute position people are taking on roll-curing, with no real knowledge of what it takes to get any horse to any stage.
Of course, abuse is bad. That sure hasn't changed, and it's out there, in all the horse sports.
kestrel's in Georgia, rehabbing two terribly abused pony mares. Heartbreaking to read of the scars on the outside, and the fear locked up on the inside, of a creature that would never actually mean to hurt you, if she could help it. How we love to terrify easily frightened creatures!
yuck.
Ponies Upon Arrival at kestrels' sisters'.(smacks fingers for probably improper punctuation.)
Three Weeks Later.
Frickin' people. Not YOU people. THOSE people. Trouble is, those people do not and never will realize how cruelly they damage and scar these honest creatures. For what?
pah. To the end of abuse in all of it's actual forms, and the end of attacking a rider trotting her horse. Like me.
Why do you think we call it f EBB ruary?
I just need some warm sun, like now.
Canadian Dressage results are certainly encouraging.
22 comments:
Agreed Gl.
Sunshine would be great, but good news-we are halfway through the deep freeze!!!
I dont understand abuse.
Ive spent a life time building a bond with my horse, and I know how his trust works-I dont want to ruin it!
But to think that there are horses out there Who HAVE NEVER had a human they could trust, how do you FIX that? Makes me sad .
EBB AND FLOW COMIN OUR WAY!!!
Great timing GL!
Another blogger posted a few days ago or maybe last week about half halts. I commented saying I am not a fan, since I don't want my horse anticipating slow down or stop instead of rating off of me.
That brought about a few responses claiming Mr. Big name uses half halts and he is a dressage master or guru (I forget who and what the title was), riding at an upper level.... which got me to thinking. Anky rides at the same or similar upper levels and she uses rolkur. Does that me we all should too???
Have you gotten the petition to sign to help end rolkur? I have from several different people and angles. I can post a link if anyone is interested.
Sad though, really, when you consider it. Why would or should the FEI folks need a petition to draw attention to the end of something in the discipline of dressage, which is the epitome of TRAINING? Are they that out of touch with the horse world and reality? Rolkur is no more than a way for people to push the horse beyond their limits in an effort to cheat their way to the top- faster.
*steps down from my soap box*
Oh and I will gladly send you some of our summer sun and the heat to go with it. You can have it and there's no need to thank me for it. Just glad to get rid of it. lol!
cnj ,while you are sending sunshine...
Tad looks lie such a pleasant kinfd horse ,like he would do anything to make you happy. SO many horse out there are simply trying to do what we ask them, even when we are asking for something completely off the wall. Abuse has always confused me(when will abusers realise if the horse isn't doing what you want YOU HAVEN"T ASKED IT RIGHT ,or you have asked for something thay can't do),Even the little mare I worked with that had such a rough time ,although she was scared and damaged still trying to understand and do what I wanted ,its just so much harder to help them trust and understand through the haze of fear!
Aaaargh, it's raining! I want to go play with the ponies some more and it's raining.
ND, sometimes you can't. And even more sad is the fact that it's the best and brightest that have the sense to decide to never trust again. But the absolute wonder and awe that I feel when that hardcase turns around keeps me throwing my heart at them in hope. I decided years ago that I would not take a horse in for training that did not come with a trainable human. I made the dreadful mistake of teaching a horse that it could trust people and then sent it back into the very situation that had driven it mad.
Good morning GL, it'll get better. You and Tad were beautiful together.
CNJ, doesn't that fall into the old parent question "if all your friends jumped off a cliff would you do it too!?!"
funny thing this morning , putting Justus and MAggie out. Justus was feeling pretty good ,but he has learned so quickly to stay at my shoulder ,so it was like walking a little mexican jumping bean(wiggling and twitching ,but not taking up the slack in the lead and maintaining his space) Maggie was REALLY feeling her oats ,so we did some circling and she did a few bucks and hops , but all at distance from me and all on a slack rope ,brought her back into place again and we walked on ,then boom she was at it again ,but still at no point did she invade my space or crash into me . These are babies essentially, Nothing they did was even remotely dangerous but there are people out the who would hang a lickin on them both for it. Maybe I am too soft ,but if they are respectful of my space and not pulling , I am willing to "let em rip " to some degree ,they are after all still learning ,if they are feeling trapped or cornered ...that can start a party! which is what rolkur looks like to me ,poor hsre so hemmed in he's got nothing left but to blow
erm, CNJ.
I won't sign any petitions that are that silly.
It's like banning suppling exercises, for the intelligent.
I have jumped off the "Anky is the Anti-Christ" band-wagon.
See, I've been watching dressage for a long time.
I was indeed surprised to see such blatant examples of disobedient explosions winning in the Olympic dressage ring. But, it's a subjective sport, a political sport. The best mover, the most expression, usually wins.
I am against bad riding.
Anky is not a bad rider. Very far from it, in my opinion.
Neither is Nicole Uphoff a bad rider, and if you research, she "started" rollcuring.
BullShite.
Nicole and Rembrandt started the next ball rolling, for sure.
Pardon the pun.
Half-halts are very poorly understood. Which is a shame, because they are really quite simple.
sigh.
I'll gladly sign a petition to end bad riding.
But I don't see that happening, until we stop shrieking that being behind the vertical is crewel, and abusive.
In that Tad picture, according to anti-rollcurists, I am abusing him.
I've got a clinic to audit with the master, coming up February 27th. I hope I can go.
I'll ask her some more questions for y'all.
I just think the RK bandwagon is accusing the wrong people of "cruelty".
Christine Wels?
Yup, that was cruel. I do not see her winning.
I think half halts are hugely misunderstood. There are a hundred different half halts for a hundred different situations.
Yes the is the classic Savoie one...and what she teaches is very correct, but it is a very basic 'this is a half halt'. It is a great jumping off point, and she teaches the principle well, and shows it well in that video.
Not all half halts are...."Take a connection, hold a tad stronger in the outside rein, a little squeeze and hold to a count of three and release." Okay, yeah that is basically a half halt. Some horse would nut up being held to the count of three...some just need a firmer tension on the rein, and a shifting of the hips with a held feeling through your core, kind of a 'be here' command.
For me a half halt is just a rebalancing of your horse, a pause to readjust, rebalance and go on. I think the term half halt is really misleading.
GL- I'm right there with ya to ban bad riding on all levels. I do my part by staying on the ground when I am just not 'feelin it' and spare the horses on my days of 'crap in the saddle'. I am but only one person...
Suppling excercises differ as they are a hold, stretch a little and release, repeat as needed and necessary technique, where rolkur is hold, hold and keep holding from what I have seen. I don't think Anky is the Anti-Christ either but since she is well known for rolkur in all it's drama to follow, it was merely an example. As Kestrel and I said, because someone else does something, does that mean we all have to do the same?
I'm sure we can find things in all disciplines we don't agree on and reasons behind why it's done and where and how it starts. Doesn't mean we must comply or conform to the trend.
I'll save the half halt discussion until you do a post on that and I'm sorry about the hijack. I agree it is misunderstood and misused like a lot of other training methods and practices.
FV- you guys can have the sun and the heat too. Take what you'd like, but please send some of your cold my way in return during the months of June, July, August... I can sure use it then!
Kestrel- It is tough fixing the issues others create and like you say it's the smartest ones who shut down first. I hope those two come around.
They're both getting better in leaps and bounds, and sis understands just how long it will take and is willing to go there. We're having fun!
FV, exactly. Training basically is just forming agreements with your horse! If it's safe, who the heck cares? And training is a progression. Just like school for children. I'll expect a lot more from a college graduate than I will a kindergarten kid.
I do think that ring stewards, show officials and breed registries are crazy for letting people do things that turn off the public... like turning their horse's tongues blue. It's their job to train riders by rewarding them with ribbons and cash...or not. Why are breed and show standards being ignored?!
I'm very disappointed in people like Anky. She knows that people will try to emulate her. I know she needs to do whatever it takes to win, but i really wish she hadn't sunk to that level.
Fern, we need more young horse handlers like you. I don't see the sense in punishing laughing. I'd never dream of demanding my dogs do anything, until they've had a chance to run some legs/breath off.
No hijack, don't be zilly, CNJ:) I get my inspiration from you all, you know.
That's the part that I find questionable, kestrel.
People "emulating" Anky. I think if we had more people actually trying to emulate correctly, we wouldn't have this brouhaha.
I honestly think it's stirred a bit by completely non-horsey people. The blue tongue "could" still have been a trick of the lighting. And the horse "could" have been a tongue-sucker. And the rider "could" have held the horse like that for two hours, but only a few minutes are shown.
Maybe the horse is part chow.
The "emulators" watch a few second video, and decide that's where their horse's head should stay.
The truly fascinated "emulators" stay and watch the whole show, the whole round. They see what they want to see, too, of course.
I haven't found a video yet that shows the horse held for unconscionable lengths of time.
I KnoW that people ArE, but I honestly don't think that's true of most of the top riders.
There are indeed, many people doing it completely wrong.
I find it hard to blame all that on Anky.
Oh, what the heck, blame it ALL on me.
I can take it:)
Naw, we wouldn't blame you! I didn't explain the emulate part well. It's kind of like the western pleasure peanut pushers, a pro may have started it for a reason, but then it got extreme, and everyone showing must emulate the abnormal to place.
Anky of course used rolkur for a reason, but the judges are placing extremes again, so even she has to continue with the fad she helped create. Sad for the horses...I have seen several videos of extreme rolkur in the warmup ring and could not believe that a horse at that level would need such severe treatment, and I cannot believe that someone would risk the injuries to the horse that can be caused by using the technique too often.
I rather doubt I'd sign the petition. It would have to have some pretty specific language for me. Not...your horse was behind the verticle for 30 seconds a minute...you are in violation.
It is the abuse of the practice I take issue with. Your horse needs to be able to flex and bend and go into other posiitons. You don't want to hold that position without release. There are positions that appear quite benign...yet if held overly long or without any sort of release or change would also become torture.
Anything done to excess is heading into abuse territory. Now there are things that can be done more than others and not be excessive. While certain things you can only do in a brief timeframe, or it becomes excessive and cruel.
I can drink a hell of a lot more water than whiskey before it becomes excessive. lol Yet even too much water can kill you. (Yeah, an unbelievable amount of water, but it can be done).
uhm...yeah 14th.
It's FRIDAY...wooohooo.
HP- the excessive water, was there a reference to the contest about holding your wee to get a Wii? The woman that won died from too much water intake, so yes, it can be done. I think the radio station faced a lawsuit of some kind didn't they?
In every sport there are those who take things to the extreme. If a little is good a lot is great. It's not their muscles they are destroying so they don't feel the pain. Then they may claim no pain, no gain.
Where it is all open to interpretation it becomes more skewed. People view it differently and sometimes it starts with- To me the horse was just slow so slow is what wins, not balance, cadence or rythm. What are they? No more than buzz words in some circles. Any methods I see in the warmup arena to get it is what I need to do at home or even the warmup myself. Horse be damned, I want to win.
And so it starts. And considering the judges are to choose from what is in the ring, if everyone moves like crap, there's not much to choose from. I would love to see a judge place a horse 6th and excuse the class questioning, "That's the best you can all do?" The fireworks would be sure to follow... Can you imagine?
As for expecting our horses to behave- even our old farts get a bit funky on the way out to the pasture for turn out. They know they will get a chance to cut loose, but at least wait until we get through the gate and I take the halter off. Then do what you want. It's a trade off. We give them time to rip snort, they put up with us on their backs.
Yeah, I think the contest is where I heard about it.
Excessive, do what it takes to win. The mindset of so and so does it, it must be okay they're winning.
I look at most breed assoc shows and am a bit horrified. When did this become attractive, desireabe? Slow is nice, yes...what I see in the WP classes does not look like a pleasure to ride to me.
The stilted, held, bound up horses of many dressage tests are equally horrible. Forward? What forward? Held, tight jawed horses, not broke at the poll but two or three verts back from being held in, tied down, drawreined to death, or slammed too soon into a double bridle.
Years ago I saw a judge give no one first. He said not a single ride in the class warranted a first place. We need to see more of that. What I hear most from judges is they have to place somebody. It is often picking the best of the worst.
My horses down time is their down time. They get to party as hard as they want to in the field or pen. I expect them to behave when on a lead or undersaddle. They need their time, as much as we need ours. I know some girls that wont let their horses roll. Don't want them to get dirty. WTF. How unfair is that. Or the the DQ that quick rushes out to grab her expensive WB out of turnout if he is playing too hard.
I figure, if I can't afford to let my horse play at liberty, for fear of injury as he is too expensive/valuable to replace...I can't afford that horse.
GL, I am having difficulty seeing "rolkur" in the picture of you and Tad. Maybe I'm not understanding what Rolkur is? Tad looks rounded and clearly moving forward. His nose is tipped a bit behind the vertical, but his mouth looks relaxed.
I did not truly understand half-halts until I rode this warmblood mare this past year. I lived by halfhalts of an abdominal nature. I was beating my head against a brick wall, trying to ride this mare like the QH and Arabs back home. Nope, she was a freight train running through my legs and hands. I had no control, no rating, nothing. Watched my trainer rider her, and I asked what she was doing, at the canter, to get this lovely round, calm canter. And I SAW the rating of the abs. Hopped on, and low and behold I could do it too.
I understand what HP's saying about a thousand different half-halts. Most people I know do the mechanical application of a half-halt (like a recipe). What I see it as now is a flexible addition to the art of riding. Every piece of your body can be a half-halt, when necessary.
HP, is it Cat who needs a moment of rolkur to get her brain back in her body when the world gets to be too much? Or is that Daf? Or both? lol.
Mainly Cat. She starts to build, I stuff her behind the verticle a few strides, and she comes back. It's like a little mental pause for her, a moment to regroup and realize I'm there, we're doing this she is going to live. To stop waiting for the shoe to drop. But she's hot and sensitive by nature, and got cooked young. It's like she has flashbacks. lol
Daf I just tend to throw in a leg yield, or some other form of lateral to get her thinking and bring her back on track.
Thanks for posting the pony oics GL, (cowering before your expertise!) The sad thing is that people just don't see the damage they do, and when it's pointed out they defend themselves without learning, then wonder why their horse learns how to defend itself.
Dancing around in your blog....!
Wow! I was wondering about the posts I had seen regarding "rolkur". Thanks for the post as it cleared it up. It is EXTREMELY horrible that a few bad acts can ruin and entire group, industry or hobby. I myself have a few horses I enjoy in my backyard, and milk holsteins for a living. My cows receive the best care you can imagine and we can afford; yet after the video put out by HSUS I feel dirty. So unfair to put out a video like that and then add become a vegan to stop anmial cruelty.
To stop animal cruelty we have to stop the individuals and their behavior.
Hello, and welcome, TC!
I couldn't believe me old eyes:)
This will not make me any more (can't make me any less) popular, but I'll say it.
Google "Faces of Animal Activism".
You'll find a video done by a farmer's association, with their guest speaker Wayne (good grief, he does look like JFKjr)Pacelle.
I'll post a link to it tonight, if I can remember.
I "am" working, ya know:)
It was really interesting, and confused me even more, if that's possible.
Please, Do not EVER feel "dirty" for being a farmer.
Most honourable profession there is.
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