Made more tragic by the witness reports.
12,000 pounds of mammal.
Horses are 1/10th that weight. Imagine that.
To The Trainer's Family.
Clearing the air
1 year ago
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- GoLightly
- This Blog is dedicated to, and could really be blamed entirely on, GoLightly, the Irish Sport Horse SchoolMaster highlight of my riding life. I had ridden my own and other peoples horses, (usually getting the ride on the difficult/ challenging/no-one else was crazy enough to ride them horses:) I especially enjoyed starting beginner riders of all ages. I taught people to ride for many years. GoLightly taught me more in one year, than I had learned in 18 years of riding. I'm good with animals, not so much with people. My interests are in animal welfare and training methods of all animals.
35 comments:
How terrible!
That is very sad. A sobering tale of the sorry plight of orcas in captivity. Many of those in aquariums across the U.S. were captured from the very waters that surround the island where I live. In fact, in the 70s, a crew trapped a pod of orcas in the deepwater cove about mile from my house. This pod would visit our cove every year in the spring. Five whales drowned during the even (including 4 calves). They did capture several of the babies and sold them, one is Lolita in Miami Seaquarium. Although this pod did survive, they have never returned to our cove. Long memories, I suppose.
I remember when this whale killed that trainer in B.C. Held him at the bottom of the tank and drowned him, if my memory serves. I think I recall there was some controversy at the time that the tank was very small and inadequate. Of course, for a whale, would tank could be adequate?
I saw this earlier today. I was shocked, but in a way not surprised. From what I understand they are very smart. How sick they must become of tanks and tricks.
I think the article said the whales were agitated earlier in the day. You gotta wonder what was going on.
So, so sad. My condolences to the family.
I remember Lolita, PF. I grew up down there and the Seaquarium was my most favorite place, next to the zoo. They used to flim the show Flipper right there at the lagoon.
Very sad story. This is the orcas third supposed kill. Yikes!
It must be dangerous to work with orcas. Similar to working with elephants. Add to that that they are predators.
Thats horribly sad
But I am of the opinion that a whale shouldnt be kept in a tank.
Ever watch free willy?
:(
Thoughts to the family though, she followed her dream.
I wonder what they will do this whale? Historically the aquariums really, really, really don't want to release them back to the wild although there are numerous group (I actually did a story with Ken Balcomb years ago, he is a major Orca activist located a few islands north of us) who want to try and rehabilitate them. It didn't work so great with that other whale, Keiko, I think, they had in Iceland. But there are lots of theories on why and how, and what not. Keiko didn't have a known family pod still left in the area of which he was taken. Some of these whales do (like Lolita). I don't know about this whale.
This will be an interesting political move for the aquarium. Whale's killed 3x! Do they euthanize him? What an uproar that would cause. Yet if they let him go to somebody like Ken Balcomb's group, AND they successfully release him back into the wild then imagine how intensified the pressure will be to release the others (the aquariums always say, oh that's a nice idea but this whale has been away too long, they wouldn't survive, blah, blah, blah...).
And yes, if you've ever seen the pods in the wild you understand what a great, great travesty it is to trap these beautiful, WILD, and intelligent animals in a small cement tank. People who were act the 1970s capture (I've talked to several) on our island said it was one of the saddest, most traumatic thing they had seen with the whole pod of whales screaming and as the calves were taken.
"act" is "at.
Sheesh.
Wow. They are beautiful creatures, but they do not belong there. If people want to see whales, let them hop on a ship and go see them in their own world. They are far more wonderous when they are in their own realm.
PF- there have been a few shows on lately about a pod known as the "LA pod", because they remain close to the coast in the southern Cali area. They seem to have a different genetic make-up than the rest and tend to be a bit more aggressive too. There was something about an attack or threat and the one woman who has been tracking and noting things on the LA pod was able to identify the whale that did it. Quite interesting information.
I agree though, if they euthanize the whale- there will be an outrage. If they don't- there could be an outrage of WHY NOT?
It is a danger of the job, just like working with horses, there is an inherent risk factor. At least she went doing what she loved though. I hope her family understands there is some peace in that.
Yes, CNJ, ocra whales are very fascinating in their behaviors change depending on where they live. Kinda like they all have their "cultural" influences. The orcas in the PacNW generally exist on salmon and don't generally attack seals or other sea mammals or birds. Versus other areas - like I think it is around Argentina? - I seen crazy video of them "running the gauntlet" up onto shore to grab seals, I think it was. Versus up on the poles they eat a lot of penguins. Also they have "loner" orcas. There are also orcas that don't live in the regular family pods and generally seem to live alone, possibly traveling great distances versus the family pods which tend to stay in a particular region. All very fascinating.
Having almost drowned once in my life...that is an incredibly terrifying experience. What a horrible way to die for that poor trainer.
I took Meg to Seaworld in San Diego quite a few years ago and she was absolutely enthralled with the whales and dolphins. She even wrangled a conversation out of one of the trainers to find out what it takes to become an aquatic animal trainer. Obviously extremely advanced swimming skills are necessary. But when Meg asked them what kind of a degree would be the best...I was kind of thinking something along the lines of biology, marine or animal husbandry...the trainer really surprised me by saying that a psychology degree was the most beneficial for working with these animals. They are incredibly smart and it's believed that they will "plan" things for years.
BTW-Keiko is dead. Trying to return him didn't work so well. I believe the known pod theory is the best plan they have going to perhaps return some of these guys to the wild, but who is to say that a pod would ever take one of them back?
I may be the odd man out here, but I think that the aquatic parks do a lot to further people's interest in the well being of these animals in the wild. Honestly...how many of us would or could ever get the chance to observe or admire them in their natural habitat? And just how much can you care about what happens to their wild friends if you never get the chance to appreciate them with your own eyes?
It's obviously still a learning curve and an evolution of what is best for the animals that are in captivity. I'm thinking a few less tricks and a lot more awareness is going to start taking place.
13th! just to take the pressure off...
BEC - I don't actually disagree with you in general, and for a lot of wild animals I think they can be given habitats that aren't so bad. But for a lot of the sea mammals, whales in general, I just think its impossible to give them adequate living environments in a "zoo" type scenario.
I didn't know that Keiko had died, last I read about him it wasn't going so well. I remember that they did not know which pod we was from (or was he one of the "loner" types).
But still the question, what to do with this particular whale?
BEC- Not thinking you are the odd man out, but I have to agree with PF, at least in the case of the whales, there is just no recreating their environment.
If the desire to learn is strong enough, there is a number of ways to find what you wish. Discovery channel, The Learning Channel, Animal Planet, (although those are also limited to some degree) the internet, books and applying to colleges specializing in marine biology and aquatic studies.
The touristy part of it- people pay enough to just to get to SeaWorld, let alone admission, hotel, food, rental car, etc. No reason they cannot hop a plane to a different destination and board a boat/ship instead. They may have a better time seeing the whales for what they are, rather than a bunch of circus tricks and jumping through hoops.
The Kenai Fjords day cruises out of Seward, Alaska vary in price but the 4.5 hour Resurection Bay cruise, at $89 for adults/$44.50 children 2-11, is not exactly overpriced. The 3 hour dinner cruise is priced at $59/$29.50. Considering almost all of their cruises include either breakfast & lunch, lunch or dinner buffets, I don't feel it's a bad deal at all.
My best friend Staci went on one of their cruises when she was there and said it was worth every dime. They seen all sorts of wildlife including eagles, otters, whales and other native species. The first time I was up there, my friend Myra, my daughter and I were supposed to go. Unfortunately the pass had been closed due to snow and we could not get to Seward to take the cruise.
People will spend the money to see the things that interest them. I think it would be more interesting if the animals were in their natural environment instead of doing the bidding of humans. Just like show horses- when they are tired of it, they let it be known. Sometimes people get hurt in the process. Sometimes they get killed. Whenever someone is asked to 'fix it', the way to resolve it is never pretty or PC.
I just learned about Keiko's death this morning. There was an ex-trainer on the Fox news...crotchety, one-eyed old guy that pretty much told it like it was. I liked him.
He believed this whale should have been euthed when he was in Canada.
The interesting thing is, when you talk to most of the people involved, they say they spend so much time "training" these animals because you can't force them.
But listening to that guy this morning, he said the animals are under a tremendous amount of pressure to perform.
I don't believe that any marine environment could ever be recreated that would be great for such large animals as these whales. As for seeing them in the wild, My Honey says it is absolutely smashing. He got to observe all types of marine life when he worked on off-shore drilling rigs.
Does anyone know if they are still capturing baby Orcas from the wild or are they all born in captivity now?
Oh, read "Lads before the Wind", by Karen Pryor, youze guys.
They are indeed under pressure. I'm surprised that it's such a rarity, frankly. Speaks volumes to the quality of the training. They are only allowing us to live, when we make these habitats for them.
"Finding Nemo", did that spawn Sea-Kittens?
The trouble, benign though it usually is, with the animal TV shows, is they are just as staged as a zoo is.
Most often observations of wild creatures are made in the "lab".
Not out where it's more dangerous.
My cousin worked at the Vancouver Aquarium, as a seal trainer.
I hope they are ALL captive bred, I'm not sure, I'll ask my DVM.
In the early days, no, they were predominately wild-caught.
Natural observation is really inherently un-natural, to the whale.
Did you read about dolphins and porpoises? THAT would break my Mom's heart, if she knew that was happening, she loved dolphins. I think they are furious with us..
long day, time for dogs:)
Naturally.
GL- my aunt has a dalmation and cringed every time Disney release the movies. The Black Stallion opened the door for the crazies in the Arab world. Thankfully Seabiscuit, Phar Lap and others haven't provoked a surge of wannabe race horse fans to buy up the OTTB's with no clue how to handle them, but hey, Easter is coming and bunnies and chicks will be for sale if they aren't already...
I should hope the marine life is raised in captivity and no longer caught in the 'wild'. Many of the saltwater fish are not- thus the stance of Petsmart not to carry them. At least part of corporate America has it right.
And while seeing the whales in their surroundings is magnificent, we are invading their space just by being there. Whether we are only watching or there for other reasons, it's their space. If only everyone could remember that and be so respectful...
It's just really too bad for everyone involved, including and maybe especially the whale. I'm sure he didn't ask for all of this and was only doing what he knew.
Where they knew he had a past, didn't keep him with the other whales and wouldn't let anyone swim with him- I see 3 warning signs right there that say pretty loud and clear- this one needs to go back.
Sorry about the double post. I have no idea what happened
Okay, since this conversation keeps going. Here is the website for Center for Whale Research, located on San Juan Island just north of us.
http://www.whaleresearch.com/about.html
Gorgeous photos. And yes, I get to live here! My father is an avid sailor, we've spent many times in our sailboat, silent and powered only by the wind, surrounded by orca pods. It is awesome everytime.
(Hangs head in shame, can't find my notes on how to make clicky links. GL, CNJ, can you do your magic?).
I can't imagine they are still capturing baby orcas, at least in U.S. worlds. Maybe other places? But I don't think I've ever heard of baby orcas being born in captivity? Interesting question. I know a lot of the Orca's in captivity have been around for a while (like Lolita, who was captured in the 70s).
I can't drive a combine, though
Thanks GL!
And imagine if we could team up?
A clicky linking combine? Clicky links to combines? A combine that threshed links out of clickys? Links to combine cliques?
The possibilities are endless...
Like Prairie Farmer, we live in northwest Washington. Seeing these beautiful whales in the San Juan (US)and Gulf Island(BC) waters is an experience that one never forgets. They are so intelligent and graceful. I can't understand how they can be content in captivity. The resident whales stay within their pods for life, and the mother-calf bond is lifelong. I'm not sure where Tillikum was captured, but it does make me wonder w hat he holds in his memory, and why he has acted aggressively. It's a very sad story.
I read that this whale has been used for breeding, yet was pretty much kept alone ( I don't think they used him in their performances, did they?) at Sea World, and now wonder what his future holds. It makes me wonder too, why stricter safety precautions weren't taken, since he'd already been involved in two previous deaths of people.
It's sad all around, that's for sure.
Padraigin -
I think it all boils down to MOOLA! I was reading an article about this more lately last night (as a matter of fact, a guy who lives in our town and is in charge of an orca group was quoted - national news!), anyways, these whales are worth many MILLIONS are dollars. Why? Because they rake in the dough.
And I guess they are breeding them in captivity, partly because animals captured from the wild have such a horrible rate of dying. I don't remember exact numbers but it was like 140 have been caught, 120 died in the first 4 years, or close to that.
But, even with an acknowledged horrible survival rate for wild-to-captivity orcas, the article said that they will still need to be capturing wild orcas for the sake of breeding purposes to keep the gene pool going.
BTW, Seaworld says they are keeping this orca. Again, reference earlier statement, they are worth MILLIONS of dollars! Do you get your insurance money back on that if you euthanize?
Ugh - just read this. But of course...
"The whale's fate remains uncertain, but both Blake and Ellis believe it will not be killed, due to public outcry. They additionally think such whales will become more popular attractions because of the incident and the perceived danger aspect."
oh, crap.
"They additionally think such whales will become more popular attractions because of the incident and the perceived danger aspect."
Danger = $$$, always has.
Yeah, it's like the Roman Coliseum out there.
My good lord, remember I've spoken of devolution?
Another clear sign.
PERCEIVED danger??
for GOD's Sake.
It is REAL danger.
Nothing like real blood to get a human going.
A calculated risk...
That's true with all animals, LWD.
Anyone ever see the movie "Orca" with Richard Harris?
Danger = Dollars
It's true in too many things. I was reading an article on the Olympics and they said the athletes are pushing the envelope on safety and competing. But at what costs?
Last night on the news they were showing video of moments before the whale attacked. They were saying they suspect her ponytail is what set the whale off. I'm not sure about that, but I'm not a whale expert either.
Anyone else here watch Whale Wars? They state a set number of whales can be killed each year for scientific research, but everything from the whale must be used. The whales in captivity may bring in money, but sadly the ones killed for food do too.
Also if you notice, their dorsal fin bends, leans or falls over to one side after being in craptivity. (Yes that was a typo, but it fits and works for me.) Any info as to why? Any idea if it straightens our upon their release?
Oh, I know that one, sort of, CNJ. It's to do with water pressure of the ocean, versus pressure in a tank, it just isn't enough to keep their dorsal fin vertical.
Lack of use and the exercise 12,000 lbs needs would be key, too, I should think.
I don't think it does straighten, if they are released, but not sure.
That's a question I've been pondering for some time, CNJ.
Entertainment. If it entertains you, it's okay.
I have been entertained for years, watching riding, and the thrills and spills that go with it.
Isn't that part of why we do it?
ReallY?
At what cost, great question.
It's up to each individual, to weigh those costs.
We thrive on adrenaline. It keeps us alive.
I'll have to find the link for you GL. They were talking about one of the athletes competing with a serious injury. Because it's the Olympics and all. And how some of the courses, equipment, whatever has been padded to a degree, pilot error is tossed aside and the games must go on- so all the ninny's and doubters just STFU and get out of the way.
Found it. It was actually a post on Halt Near X. I have to agree with a lot of what is/was said.
Sorry, but I won't risk utter destruction or death, just to "win" anything. No prize is that great.
There's a certain risk with any animal, and with any situation, though, right?
Horses, at "normal" size, are a dangerous beast.
To the uninitiated.
And the initiated, too!
re: Olympics, I think a skier, she is skiing with a torn acl. It's up to her. Competition is a given, isn't it?
I started out thinking I was going to tie it in with dogs, but whoops.
tangentially challenged, I be.
Oh, rambling hellioness out.
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