The more I thought about it, the madder I got. It's one of my more dubious character disorders. Let me quote what made me so mad.
My question, to Mugwump, regarding videos of reining and cutting "masters" that she had kindly posted. "mugs, is the palomino dead-tailed, as someone said?
Or is he what I've seen in some old-tyme qh's, a real quiet type?
I still liked him better. He is a racin' car. The chestnut looked more TB to me. Not that there's anything WRONG with that:)
If the low-head carriage is what places first in reining, why is Laura bashing on it?
Is there a divide in the western idea of "ideal"?
LOL!!
My word ID is EQUITER.
how ironic:)"
(Laura had said she didn't like the low head set of reiners.)
Laura's oh so snooty response "I think that if you are talking about something of which you have very little knowledge, its best to frame your comments/questions respectfully. Perhaps your more appropriate response would have been "Laura (or Mugs if you want to ask her), why does the horse with the naturally high headset have some advantages as a head horse, when the reiners want the horse's head so low?"
So, if I ask a question, I need to preface it with "Kow-towing, genuflecting, on my knees slobbering respectfully. I know sweet f-k all about the western world"?? GAWD! I deleted everything I said in that post, in a completely red-headed huff of indignant pique. Laura's asking the question she wants to answer, NOT THE QUESTION I ASKED. And, she seemed to skip over the fact that I ASKED mugs!!!
Y'know, I don't think I WANT to know anymore. It's obvious that if you do ask a question, you are stupid. If you don't ask a question, you don't learn anything. How do I start from here? I'm staying the heck away from that kind of attitude. Honestly! I've been watching WP & HUS classes, for some time now, thinking WHY? Why is the head so low? Quick answer, I guess, is "WHO KNOWS?" Laura doesn't, and mugs wants to stay politically correct, I guess. I've thought to myself, "Are they breeding for that low head?" Turns out, yes,they are. BUT WHY? Makes zero sense to me. Does that make me stupid, or what??
That I'm not riding right now, for sure, gets the old noses stickin' up, too. OH, you DON'T own a HORSE?? Sniff. I still have to say, the Western Folk are even scarier than I thought. And, they pack weapons. It's the good ol' boy mentality, I guess. I've watched Stacy Westfall, and thought, yes, that makes great sense. Then mugs, whose opinion I respect, posts a super-low-headed reining champion that she thinks is the best in the business. Why wouldn't ya ask? Oh, right, you're supposed to KNOW, already. The exact same thing happens in English, don't get me wrong. If you have to ask, you are dumb. If you don't ask, you NEVER learn. No wonder the horse industry is all screwed up. You are assumed to know everything, and if you don't, boy, are you DUMB.
kestrel, I couldn't agree with you more. Teaching for the long run, and teaching for the horse's comfort and well-being, isn't happening at the school barns. Not enough money to be made, teaching horsemanship. My biggest competitor, when I was teaching, was a lesson factory, where the kids riding six months taught the beginners how to jump. I "captured" a few of their students, the ones that wanted to learn, and knew they weren't getting it there, but not that many. Hard to compete with a barn that'll turn ya into a professional with one year's experience.
My next post, (if I survive), will be on my idea of the perfect school barn. I will hope that out there somewhere, one actually exists, for the horses.
I gotta quit posting for awhile, kind friends. I'm afraid the CIA/AQHA/NRHA/NRCHA is going to drop an ICBM on my lonely, isolated house, to shut this mentalpausal ranting red-head with the stupid questions UP! I am on wireless at home, they're probably zeroing in on my signal right (KABOOM)
11 comments:
I honestly don't know why the super low head set either. I could surmise that cutters need to be looking at the cow and a catty horse does tend to get their head low also for reiners maybe a balance thing. Headers and heelers need a more free moving horse that can turn on the gas when they need it. As FAR AS WP it think they have taken the "some is good ,more is better" philosophy and have taken the peanut rolling to an extreme. I don't care how you ask or who you ask THERE ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS as long as greater knowledge is the intent.
That's what I find so darn skeery. No-one really has a good answer. It just "is what it is". The idea that the horse is relaxed with his head down, is supposed to extend to when he is working? The "ideal" seems to be the horse "seeking the ground". But, but, but:)
It's even weirder than saddleseat, to me. Saddleseat has ALWAYS looked like that.
WP never used to look like that. Their heads were carried in line with a level neck. Yeah, they shuffled along, but they didn't look like they were about to graze.
The whole notion has messed up my story, too. "Horses never look down, except to eat."
Hmmm, I guess Horses never look down, except when directed to.
I wonder at the methods for that "direction".
Oh, well. I can't please everybody.
Actually, I think both English and Western are divided by 'the show crowd' and the 'doing something real crowd'. Real cowboys think the show crowd is completely insane! Why make a horse do stupid shit that serves no useful purpose? (NH games anyone, snork!)
An old friend of mine said "If you want to show, get out your best gear and your best horse, practice up, then ride into the arena with your checkbook open on the saddle horn. The judge will come around and look at you, then the rider with the biggest checkbook wins!"
There is a big difference between a balanced horse that can use his neck to raise or lower his head to get the job done, and a horse who looks like his neck has been put in a cast, dammit!
There's also a big difference between a rider who can shuffle around a ring in bizarre positions for 20 minutes or so.... and a rider who can cut, rope, brand, load lambs, jump logs and ride miles without soring a horse.
kestrel,thanks for that explanation. Perfect sense from you too, as usual.
That's exactly the feeling I get from all my reading. It's crazee. I know I come across as naive. Well, WTF? If ya don't know, you ask. I've asked some of these questions before on fugs. Like wry noses in Arabs. Gee, who'd a' thought THAT could happen?
I've given up on reading mugwump. Now they're all oohing and aaahing over some WP videos. One "good one" posted was a two-year old. Yeah. Great.
I'm not saying any more words over there, the ears are deaf. It's too bad, because I did help a couple people with my collection definitions. TOO BAD, I took them ALL away.
I'm so immature..
Although, to be fair, one WP show person did say to me that "they" were trying to get back to a happy "medium".
Still, it's just so STOOPID.
Gotta get back to pricing.
To all you wonderful peoples.
Okay, I have to ask...what's a wry nose?!
I tell my students that the only stupid question is the one you didn't ask! Isn't it sad that it's the stupidest, most insecure people who run around trying to prove how much they know by trying to point out that they know something you don't? Funny, often they don't know the answer, so they try to put you down instead. When you pin them down all you'll get is some bullshit rant! I love to talk to knowledgable people who disagree with me. I always learn something.
Wry nose is an "accident of birth"
can be a slight twist of the muxxle upper lip to a complete bony deformity of the nose and jaw
http://images.google.ca/images?um=1&hl=en&rlz=1T4GGIH_enCA275CA275&q=+site:www.thehorse.com+wry+nose
Oh, it's when the nasal rostrum is twisted. Eeesh, it's yeah, twisted nose. You hear about them, in arabs. At least, I have..
I better go look it up again.
I HATE being unprepared.
Oh, FV did it.
JMO, the breeding down of those nasal bones has led to this deformity. I don't think it's always an accident of birth. JMO.
It's more common in arabs. (Just what I've read, and heard, but can't remember that as clearly).
Have you seen how twisted some overbred Chihuaua faces are?
Sorta similar, IMO.
Breeding to downsize always brings risks, IMO.
Fern, could y'all ask your DVM student? I'll ask my DVM?
She owns an old arab mare, that used to like to teleport, up, down, every which way..
I don't know how to post links, but google arabian birth defect or wry nose. Stuff comes up. You'll notice I wasn't challenged on Fugs (yet, cowers)..
Is it also in other Breeds, Fern?
Like working with TB yearlings 36 years ago. Couldn't they see the future problems of running these babies?
I'm gonna google/boogle a bit more.
GL when I say "accident of birth" I mean it is more likely a congenital defect rather than a genetic/hereditary thing. I have seen wry nose in other breeds TWH QH and it also happens in cattle.I will ask Angela what the current research says.
Old farmers school say "big baby small uterus" or placement in utero which is where I get the congenital thing
Oooh, cool.
Ok, so where did I get that idea from?
I'm thinking maybe the cases I've heard of were Arabs.
I did read somewhere it was more common. See, I can't argue with my memory. It gives me often than not the minimal info I might need. TWH/QH too?
Eek.
Yeah, I knew in cattle. But we've sure narrowed down their gene pool a bit too, haven't we? Or haven't we?
We've been breeding for bigger all along in cattle. Well, you know what I mean.
My husband gets Better Farming Mag., I just glean what interests me and store it. Never know when it might pop up.
Useful info, that is.
:)
Sorry, I did promise to be quiet:(
Now I'm getting really out to lunch!
I'll look it up, from 1982, Equine Med. & Surg."
Ah, it just describes what it is. "Severe deviation of the premaxilla and palate, blah, blah."
But when I google "wry nose incidence by equine breed"
the first hit says
"Bruce C. McGorum, Padraic M. Dixon, N. Edward ... - 2006 - Medical - 705 pages
Signalment Wry nose occurs occasionally in all breeds, but the incidence seems to be highest in the Arabian breed, leading to speculation that the condition ...
books.google.ca/books?isbn=
0702027596..."
The second does the same thing.
Ya see? I don't make this stuff up. I just can't remember where/when/how I read it.
2007 Journal
"Clinical Relevance—Surgical correction of wry nose may provide a good functional and cosmetic outcome."
What's interesting is that in 1982, most were euthanized, I quote "Many of these foals have extreme difficulty nursing and must be euthed".
Now, we have plastic surgery for horses, and we (maybe) continue breeding these twisty nose foals.
(shudder)
??
I dunno.
I'll be quiet.
Thanks for reading!
GL- I missed your question until now- more of a lurker but learn tons that way- but am glad you asked it because I did not understand either. I have grown quite tired of the either holier than thou attitude of L Crummy or the relentless hawking of her damn books.
***no offense if you wish to hit delete now****
LOL!!
Are you kidding?
Thanks, I thought I was losing my mind.
Oops, there it is.
Thanks for reading, darlin'.
I think I have to leave the "dark side". LOL!!
People hate a good honest question, eh?
I'll go check up on your blog..
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